Roberto Ampuero y Mauricio Rojas hablan sobre su libro “Diálogo de Conversos”

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En la publicación cuentan cómo fue dejar las ideas marxistas, el conflicto emocional que aquello les produjo, como también las lecciones que han sacado de la historia y su visión del Chile actual y del futuro.

Marcela Catalán

“Es una de las decisiones más inteligentes que he tomado en mi vida. A mí y a millones de otras personas, la historia nos ha dado la razón”, cuenta Roberto Ampuero a El Rancagüino, sobre cuando renunció a las Juventudes Comunistas estando en La Habana, en 1978, tras partir al exilio luego del Golpe Militar en Chile. Un hecho que da pie a “Diálogo de Conversos”, su último libro, en el que junto a Mauricio Rojas relatan sus razones para abandonar la izquierda, las emociones que implicó dicho proceso y las lecciones que todo aquello les dejó a los dos.

No eran amigos antes de gestar el volumen, pero la lectura mutua los reunió y ayudó a enterarse del pasado del otro -un pasado con el que guardan diferencias, pero también similitudes políticas como la ya citada-. Fue así como estando en el país coincidieron en una actividad de Fundación para el Progreso, encontrándose por vez inicial. Más adelante se citaron en la casa de Olmué del ex ministro de Cultura de Sebastián Piñera y “bajo un parrón”, grabadora en mano, charlaron durante tres días de su alejamiento de las ideas marxistas y de todo lo que esto conllevó para ambos.

De dichos temas hablarán a las 11 horas este martes 10 de mayo en el Teatro Regional, ubicado en Millán 342, donde se reunirán con alumnos de 3° y 4° medio. Más tarde brindarán otra charla en Casablanca Centro de Eventos, a las 19 horas y en el kilómetro 5 camino Doñihue, Rancagua. Las dos actividades son abiertas y gratuitas y los interesados pueden inscribirse en contacto@fppchile.org

“Nos encontramos sin tener un esquema preparado, simplemente con las ganas de contarnos nuestras historias y poder reflexionar sobre nuestras vidas”, declara Mauricio Rojas respecto a cómo se gestó esta publicación. “En ese momento no pensábamos que de todo esto resultaría un libro. Fue algo bastante poco común, casi como un experimento que resultó muy bien, por la acogida que ha tenido. Antes, no había una vieja relación personal. Por eso creo que “Diálogo de Conversos” tiene cierta espontaneidad”, asegura el Doctor en Historia Económica y profesor de la Universidad de Lund, quien militó en el Movimiento de Izquierda Revolucionaria (MIR) hasta 1974, el que abandonó estando exiliado en Suecia.

En sus palabras, se trató de un proceso doloroso en extremo. “No sólo se rompe con ideas, sino que con personas y compañeros, gente que tú aprecias muchísimo. En mi caso, relato mi vínculo con mi madre. Yo, hijo único. Ella, separada y socialista, estuvo en Villa Grimaldi y la pasó muy mal. Un día debí decirle que nuestro pensamiento, por el que habíamos luchado y por el cual había dado su vida, no conducía a los paraísos que queríamos construir, sino que a los infiernos de Rusia, a dictaduras totalitarias. Debí decirle que nuestras vidas habían sido dedicadas a ideas peligrosas. Ella quedó muy choqueada”, recuerda.

Incluso rememora el instante en que por primera vez le leyó un texto suyo, donde expresaba este viraje en su parecer. “Ella me lo tiró por la cabeza y me gritó ‘tú has destruido mi vida’. Por eso recalca que “esto de ser converso” implica “un importante conflicto emocional con gente que quieres y a los que debes decir tu verdad. Para muchos de mis compañeros, soy simplemente un traidor. Por ende, hay una carga que va mucho más allá de lo intelectual”, revela Rojas.

En tanto, Ampuero sostiene haber pasado por dos situaciones. “Por un lado, al romper, hay una dosis de dolor, tristeza y nostalgia, al saber que se perderán ciertas amistades. Pero al mismo tiempo existe una gran dosis de alivio, porque no puedes llevar más esto que te hiere y de lo cual debes desprenderte, pues ya no crees más en eso. Entonces, me sentí aliviado, aunque por completo huérfano en el mundo”.

Y es que según el autor de la serie policial de Cayetano Brulé, ser comunista “es una fe político religiosa” con íconos y santos. “Está ahí el paraíso prometido que es el comunismo, el mal del capitalismo y el diablo imperialista. Yo ya no creía en eso y me sucedió algo muy duro, porque ya no recibía las explicaciones digeridas de la vida y el mundo, como tampoco de las cosas cotidianas y de cómo debía ser Chile. Sales de ese universo donde todo está ordenado y eres tú, estás solo y debes buscar las explicaciones. Todo esto te lo planteas desde tu propia individualidad y eso es un gran reto, al no estar las muletas que te acompañan al militar en un partido como el PC. Fue un momento de desorientación y de soledad”, observa.

Sobre si hubo gente que le recriminara este cambio, si bien lo niega, afirma que nunca más vio “al 80 por ciento” de ellos. “Quizá les pareció que era incorrecto lo que hacía, (pero) con el resto continuamos siendo amigos. A veces nos encontramos en Chile, tomamos un café y hablamos del país. ¿Sabes lo que pasa? Si se tiene una visión democrática y se es republicano, no mides a las personas por el partido al cual pertenecen. Uno piensa “bueno, esta persona fue DC y se cansó. El otro era de derecha y se volvió más socialdemócrata. Uno mira eso con comprensión y como parte del cambio en la vida. No se puede estar desde los 16 años hasta viejo, creyendo que todo lo que aseguraba su partido era lo correcto. Eso no existe, ya que el mundo ha cambiado tanto”.

Es por ello que en “Diálogo de Conversos” también entregan su visión a la luz de la historia y de lo experimentado por estos días en el país, cuestión que analizan en estas páginas.

En línea con Rojas, en el libro se refieren “a la radicalización producida a partir de las nuevas generaciones”. A su juicio, este proceso es protagonizado por jóvenes que nacieron “con ciertas seguridades y que “son hijos del progreso”, sin tener los reparos de sus antecesores. “Se lanzan o son impulsados a un pensamiento mucho más utópico y a un cuestionamiento mucho más total de esa nación que ha dado las mejores condiciones de vida que ningún joven ha tenido” en este territorio.

“Ésa es la paradoja del Chile actual: su éxito se ha transformado en un malestar contra las fuentes del mismo. Nosotros reflexionamos bastante acerca de esta situación, haciendo unos paralelos con Europa y el año 78, procurando entender cómo seguir adelante y tratando de construir sobre lo hecho, pero asumiendo que se deben generar nuevas respuestas ante un cambio tan profundo”, recalca.

De todos modos, mira con recelo la reacción de los menos longevos frente al fallecimiento de Patricio Aylwin. “Acusaban que la transición había sido un desastre, porque él no encarceló a todos los militares ¿Cómo pueden juzgar así un proceso que fue increíble? Salimos de la Dictadura sin violencia y se creó un país que casi eliminó la pobreza extrema. Las nuevas generaciones son muy distintas a las antiguas. Sin embargo, el problema es poner en entredicho las bases fundamentales del éxito (…) Hay que tener cuidado. Cuando comienza el deterioro, y hoy vemos algunos síntomas, con este especial clima de convivencia, las cosas pueden ir sorprendentemente rápido. Si bien estamos lejos de los momentos anteriores al Golpe, hay que tener cuidado, porque las cosas pueden desbocarse”.

Por su parte, Roberto Ampuero garantiza que los adultos se encontrarán en “Diálogo de Conversos” con cuestiones conocidas, mientras que los más jóvenes podrán observar la realidad de una nación que era muy distinta a la actual.

“Chile era muy pobre en relación a América Latina, con niños sin zapatos. Es interesante ver eso y no olvidarse de que nada está asegurado. La gente y las naciones se mantienen a la cabeza o a la cola de su región y del mundo, dependiendo de los esfuerzos hechos y del éxito de sus políticas. Tampoco hay que dejarse seducir por dogmas, ni menos por políticos que les exigen un sacrificio total a nombre suyo o de su ideología. Tengan su independencia, preocúpense de Chile y de la política, pero en el sentido más amplio. Estén atentos a lo hecho por los políticos y sean críticos desde su independencia. Lo más importante: están ocurriendo cambios tan grandes y vertiginosos, en términos tecnológicos, que eso marcará el nuevo planeta. La tecnología noquea a la ideología y a la política”, remata.

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